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Post by tony on Jun 10, 2006 8:13:13 GMT -5
We delivered!
There was no waiting a week, 2 days before the next race, or even 2 months to get the race results posted on our web site.
There was no waiting 6 moto's till even after your first moto to get our race results posted. This has been a long standing problem at every single area race I've ever been too be it MX West or Sierra MX and I've seen it as a needless problem with ways to fix it. This has been met with "we have our system of doing things down, don't try to change them".
Well, fortuneately for all of us MustangMX doesn't have "their system of doing things down" and offered me free rein in developing our own system of doing things, and our "new" system as anyone at the last two races knows works.
I have to admit, my biggest fear of Mustang doing our own races has been the scoring experience. This fear is well put to rest, we've raised the bar and I'd like to challange any other promoter out there to post their results faster than the absolutely awesome team Kelly Perez put together for us. We proved it again on our second race in the series by being even faster with our results postings.
Our results were posted up on the board before you even had time to park your bike after your moto and walk up to check them. If race 7 was on the track still, race 6 results was up and posted already, consistantly through out the night. When have any of you ever been to any other track capable of doing that?
Our scoring team rocks, just like every other team we have rocks. We wanted people leaving there asking other tracks they ride why they can't do the same and we delivered on that goal.
The sickest part is, we're just getting started, this was only the second race EVER our team has worked together on. If we could get any faster we'll work on it, we may have your race results posted before you even run your moto. Ok, maybe we can't do that, but don't think we won't try to figure out a way to get it done, we're all down for just making every race entry have the absolute best experience they can have and deserve.
I'd like to send out the challenge just in fun for any other area promoter to get race results posted at the track faster than us, with the 100% acuracy we did, then step it up a notch by also having your final race results posted on your web site faster. Our race results were posted on our web site Friday night before most people had even left the race. We could have had them up before anyone left the race but my old school self refuses to use BS lazy hack it easy software like Front Page and instead hand types everything directly into notepad for our web site. I also like having the results posted without the need of anyone installing or waiting on "Acrobat pdf files" to see them. If your clueless on what I'm talking about then just open the results in your web browser, click on your menu bar 'view" then "source" and see what all I hand coded in to make that web page happen.
And before anyone says that was easy, it was maybe a smaller than 400 rider event, I'll respond with, we had a 1300 rider Loretta Lynn event a few weeks ago at Honey Lake and we got race results posted on the internet that same night. It can be done and anyone telling you it can't, we're living proof it can and you're being BS'd about their own inefficientcies or motivation. Not being able to do the same as we did is only a result of not knowing how to do it. After their "years of experience" you'd think they'd know how to do it by now, obviously they don't know as much as those "years of experience" has taught them in doing things like "their system has it down" shows if we can do it with only two races of experience is getting it done.
I got the emails and PM's calling my bluff saying we couldn't do it, if you checked our web site tonight, the results not only for the single race but for the series were posted on the web site with in 15 minutes of the last moto running.
Look at all the Mustang track is offering us that no one else is, then help support the track. With everyones help and support we have the ability to make this track for all of us into something nowhere else in the world likey has. We have so many plans and desires, but it's going to take all of us supporting the effort to make it all happen, and the effort behind the track is 100% for making things great for all of us otherwise I wouldn't be giving so much of my time to it. If we can get a volume of people out there then Jerry will put up the money to even get us transponders and digital scoring. He's putting up so much already, more than any other track or promoter in this area is willing to do for us, lets all return the favor by just going out there, it's not like the track doesn't totaly rock anyhow.
MustangMX also earned bragging rights on giving everyone their monies worth for a night race series. This wasn't a Arena Cross sized night series track for the same price like we;ve all been told we will have, we got a FULL sized MX track under the lights. You got your monies worth racing the Mustang night series, other tracks need to step up to the plate and deliver us the same or your a absolute moron racing them.
In my 2 years in this area the night races have gotten done at 1-2AM, you waited on your results at least an hour after not just your moto, but the last mot was finished. You also rode the night series on a extremely shortened track with even in my 30 beginner class we got a total with even our slow laps of about 10 minutes of track tck for $35. That';s just insane, but what coice did you have if you wanted to race?
Racers, the bar can be raised, we can demand more, we can at least get some value for our money but we have to demand it and support it. The Mustang night races are running a true full sized MX track under the lights, no one else is offering that. A normal night race anywhere else costs you the same and one entire moto means about the same track time as just one single lap at MustangMX, and we ran 5 full laps for the regular classes, that was some serious track time per moto, your monies worth for sure. Why settle for less when we can all get more?
The more support we give the Mustang track then also I assure you, unlike all the other tracks out there, the more development were going to see for our return. All the other tracks seem to be only looking at things as if thats that much more money they are making. Mustang isn't at all looking at things this way, instead they are looking at how much more they can provide you. I know Jerry and Tara better than probably any single or group person here does, I assure you all, if we can get high turn outs and true support for that track then the ski is the limit and all of us will see new leveels geared towards MX greatness in this area. Their already poiuring tons in, the more support they see the more we'll see bake, new levels like you've never even imagined. What other track out ther right now is promising anyone anything new?
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Post by tony on Jun 10, 2006 13:13:19 GMT -5
Who wants to make $100? I'll put up $100 out of my own pocket to bet no one else in Sierra MX or MX West can post their race results for the entire race one moto out like we did, and get the race results for the overall, including series points like we did posted on our web site the same day of the race, posted on our web site 10 minutes after our last race finished. There's no reason they can't either, we did it. All of you that PM'd and emailed me because of the purpose delay last week thought you were calling my bluff on it being possible. That should prove there is no excuse for long race result delays, all of Mustangs results were posted on the board one moto out and our final race and series points results were posted within 10 minutes of our last moto. $100.00 www.mustangmx.com/
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Post by icarus on Jun 10, 2006 18:41:53 GMT -5
1) Who's We? Are you with HL or Mustang, Your name is TONY, not Larry or Jerry? Honey Lake and Mustang are not the same entity as you are leading people to believe. There were only 170 entries at the first Mustang summer race last week, not even close to the 400 you claim. Mustang has never had 1300 riders, not even 1/4 of that. I am also sure your part was minimal. 2) I've NEVER been to ANY night race that went until 1 or 2 in the morning. Carson never did! 3) You've personally done far more to destroy the local mx scene then any one group or person in the last 10 years. You leave a wake of pure 100% softserve crap behind where ever you go. You need to stop bashing other groups that have cast you out and try to make peace once in a while. You'll get FAR better results. Are you happy with what you've destroyed? 4) What am I doing even responding to this worthless babble?
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Post by nobody on Jun 10, 2006 20:04:25 GMT -5
197 enteries last night and people were complaining they got home after 2am ?
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Post by nielsenracing482 on Jun 11, 2006 16:07:55 GMT -5
2) I've NEVER been to ANY night race that went until 1 or 2 in the morning. Carson never did! I live walking distance from the Carson Track and I have gotten home from a night race at 1:00 in the morning. VIVA LA TONY!!!
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Post by nielsenracing482 on Jun 11, 2006 16:10:10 GMT -5
197 enteries last night and people were complaining they got home after 2am ? I dont Know what you are talking about I live in Carson I had the 13th moto out of 18 and I got home at 11:00 VIVA LA TONY!!!
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Post by nielsenracing482 on Jun 11, 2006 16:12:11 GMT -5
I would have to say that Mustang put on the best two events that i have ever been to (in Northern Nevada) no other race in the area even compares.
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Post by icarus on Jun 11, 2006 19:32:20 GMT -5
I would have to say that Mustang put on the best two events that i have ever been to (in Northern Nevada) no other race in the area even compares. I have no doubt that Mustang put on a great event. Jerry and Tara are hard working people dedicated to making the best of Mustang MX.
My issue is that there are a lot of good tracks and other hard working people out there, too.
p.s. Not to mention that 1/2 the things that were posted are falsehoods and the the other 1/2 are completely bias and twisted.2) I've NEVER been to ANY night race that went until 1 or 2 in the morning. Carson never did! I live walking distance from the Carson Track and I have gotten home from a night race at 1:00 in the morning. VIVA LA TONY!!!
My guess is there were beers involved ;D197 enteries last night and people were complaining they got home after 2am ? I dont Know what you are talking about I live in Carson I had the 13th moto out of 18 and I got home at 11:00 VIVA LA TONY!!!
Hmm, 18 -13 = 5 motos left = approx 2 hours; 11:00 pm + 2 hours = 1:00 am, Sounds about right to me.
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Post by nielsenracing482 on Jun 12, 2006 12:36:34 GMT -5
it was a pretty small track i dont think 5 motos would take 2 hours and it depends on where the people live.
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Post by icarus on Jun 12, 2006 13:07:38 GMT -5
I was just messin around.
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Post by tony on Jun 12, 2006 22:29:15 GMT -5
Steve, my point is that it can be done, all along we've been told it couldn't, when I knew perfectly well it could be done. There's just no reason for anyone to need to wait hours standing at the scoring boards waiting to see the race results get posted, or days and weeks to get the results everyone wants to see posted on the web sites.
We didn't have a magic wand no one else has that we waived at Mustang to get our reults posted so fast, we just better utilized our available tools and busted our butts to get it done. Potential problems were pre planned out so that should a problem arrive there was already a solution in effect to immediately take over before anyone even knew a single problem took place (the only problem I couldn't hide from everyone that wasn't fixed before they knew it happened was when our generator ran out of power and all the lights went out, the room was still lit though by our computer systems still being up and running, and all scoring and dat entry went on uninterupted). System Redundancy, data back ups, and emergency power blocks all worked as planned and the night went down without a hitch.
Results can be posted almost immediately even if a total disaster were to strike as long as you know how to use the tools your working with, have an understanding of what could go wrong and a plan ready and prepaired for such a problem in advance.
You'll have to excuse my excitement in wanting to make this post and what we've achieved known, because I've been frustrated in trying to say to our area promoters there are better ways to get these jobs done with the tools your using and no one wanted to listen, instead I was met by (and not by just one area promoter) "we have our system of doing things down from doing it for so long, so we know best and have no interest in changing things". If it sounds like an I told you so kind of thing from my part well then yes I guess in a way it was, not meant as an in your face kind of I told you so, just an I told you it could be done, do you see now it can be done!
To be honest with you, I wasn't 100% sure it could be done myself before pulling it off and doing it. I've never scored a MX race in my life, and to be honest with you my only intentions were not to have any part of the actual scoring, but just get the systems being used a little more reliable, efficient and set up trouble free for the people using them.
The Masterpools wanted to hold a race out at Mustang and my first question at the time was what are we going to do about scoring, I mean I know computers inside and out, but I don't know anything about scoring an MX race other than you wait around half the night to your your results posted on a piece of paper up on a board and if there was a problem with networking the computers to get that done someone found me and asked to help resolve it.
As time started winding down I think they had more faith in me getting the job done than I certainly had, and it became clear Honey Lake wouldn't be able to send a crew out to help because they had their own races going on. So I decided I better get my butt out to Honey Lake during the races there and take Lise Wosick up on her offer to try to show me how to do it. The Lorretta Lynn Qualifier races are their biggest events of the year, so it made for a good place to get my feet wet, between Lise and Don out there taking the time they did to train me on the fine art of scoring and all the data entry, not to mention the potential problems that pop up on such a huge event I left there feeling like maybe I could do it (and a little maybe I don't have a choice because we didn't have anyone else available to get it all going at Mustang). While at Honey Lake working as a volunteer or trainee I certainly learned alot, and was able to offer up some suggestions that could easily fix a couple things and speed stuff up, all while not making anyones job harder or more confusing, but easier.
Others from the Mustang crew (even though we have a small crew) also went to Honey Lake to help as volunteers as well, just like Honey Lake has been willing to do anything they could to help us out, and continue to.
I liked the bonds I was seeing between not just two tracks, but two almost competeing businesses if you wanted to look at it that way, going out of each others way just to help the other out in anyway they could and it's been working out well, very well, between Honey Lake and MustangMX.
The fact of the matter is, the last two Mustang races we held went smooth and turned out to be what someone else has already said because I know I left there feeling the same way, the best 2 MX events I think I've ever been at, from both a racers perspective and a staff members perspective. It wasn't done with smoke and mirrors, it was done by alot of hard work and determination from everyone to make it that way. I won't even try to thank all the great people who came together to help make that event happen as smooth as it did because I know I'd forget to mention just a single person if I attempted it.
If anyone felt a little too tired leaving the last race, or thought it ran later than it needed to, well Jerry is already pointing the blame for that at me and I'll alone take full responsibilty for it then because I wanted everyone to get more laps and track time for their money. Yes our first night race of the series was done at about 10PM, but we also only ran all the races with 4 laps for all but the 50's who went 3 laps and the Pro's who only went 5 laps. Sure we ran a distance wise full size MX track, not a condensed version of one, but I still felt it important that people got as much value as possible for their money out of the evening. So I pushed to get us raised to 5 laps each and 7 laps for the Pro's at the last race which caused us to run about an extra hour to hour and a half later this time, not to mention we had to add an additional race last weekend to accomidate some other classes people signed up for.
We all went to a night race to race at night, getting done by 10 or 10:30PM also means several people don't get to race at night and under the lights in their second moto because the second rounds of moto's end up starting too early, sure we'll turn the lights on for them, but the sun is still up.
We all also go to a race to race, more laps means more racing for everyone. Add up the amount of track time you get on any given track, then divide that by the money your spending and see where the value is at. I think someone said my own moto's at Mustang were running about 2 1/2 minutes a lap (sure seemed like longer), without mentioning any names so I don't get accused of pointing fingers or picking on anyone, some of our other night races I've been to around here were turning about 4 minutes for my entire moto's. If you rode one class that's a total of 8 minutes for the entire evening, that's about $4.38 a minute, or $262.50 an hour your paying for track time. 2.5 minute laps may still add up to sound like alot, but it is cutting the amount of per minute time your paying to be on the actual track in almost half when you assign a dollar value to it.
You take your car to the car wash to get it clean, are you going to pay $20.00 for the 3 minute rush wash, or $3.00 for the 20 minute get your car clean wash?
If people just wanted to get out of there earlier like your telling me Steve, then sure we could do that, is the race about spending time racing on the track or racing to get out of there early? We could start at 4PM, run 1 lap moto's and work on getting everyone out of there by 4:30. We could probably even get done by 4:15 if we forced all the different classes and bike sizes onto the same gate or a single split gate. Cut the track size down and we could even be done out there by 4:10 or 4:05.
Now your going to tell me that's the kind of stuff you honestly think people want?
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Post by icarus on Jun 12, 2006 23:23:07 GMT -5
I was just messin around. Read and repeat as necessary
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Post by Mr Moto on Jun 12, 2006 23:23:55 GMT -5
Let’s talk about night races, these are just something’s to think about…….. 1. How many races have you been to in your life time? Or night races? So, it wouldn’t take much to be at the best race you have ever been to. I’m not trying to take anything away from the race at Mustang. But come on….There has been many good races in our area and just like what you said you’ve only been here two years. 2. Break down of money. Let me give you a little example. AMA supercross the ultimate night race. It cost a pro rider 125 dollars for an entry fee and 500 dollars for his AMA pro license. Now you need to make it through the qualifiers they are 3 laps and if you don’t qualify you get a last chance it to be only 3 laps. Okay now you make it to the night show. Now you need to qualify for the main….5 laps. Now you make the main, the main is 20 laps for the 250 and 15 for the 125. The lap times are about 50 to 58 seconds a lap. If you don’t make the night show you get 6 laps for 125 dollars. If you make the night show you get your entry money back and if you don’t qualify, you get to sit in the stands and watch…… 3. Arenacross the main is only about 6-8 minutes long, yet another form of night races. 4. Night races need to be short, sweet and fun.They should be over no later than mid-night 5. Everybody needs to remember that motocross is a drag race from turn to turn with obstacles in between. I had a good friend of mine who would complain about the length of the moto’s and how short they where. He told me if the moto’s were longer he could out last them. My answers to him was raise the bar and push your self harder and sooner and not worry about out lasting, but going as fast as you can. Remember it’s a race and in a race you need to go fast as you can to win!! I think it great to get the results up faster and technology will allow it. Much like watching the races via transponders and internet and it won’t be long and we will all be using transponders. It one of those thing call me old fashion but I don’t go to the races because they can get the results up fast….It about the quality of the event and that will bring the racers. The track at Mustang will do that without faster scoring. I’m not say that it isn’t an added bonus, but the people working the event and the track lay out will do most of the talking……good and bad. I do admit it is a good thing, especially for night races and people do like getting there results… My question is what happens when all this crashes? Are you going to pay all of us a hundred bucks? I don’t care what anybody says nothing is fool proof and computers crash…..So be careful what you bet… P.S. If you want fast you'd eat at McDonalds, not Fat Burger....Ya, know what I mean...
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Post by NOYB on Jun 13, 2006 1:17:08 GMT -5
I appreciated the extra laps at Mustang. Giving extra laps makes me feel like you care about the $$$ I spend to race. It makes me feel as though you care about giving me what I paid for, not just taking my money! It does not matter to me what time the races get over. And for you pansies that complain about getting out of there too late, they do offer overnight camping!
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Post by tony on Jun 13, 2006 2:27:38 GMT -5
I like your thinking, and how you put actual thought into what you had to say in your reply to me.
What does make for a good night race? We were done by midnight as you pointed out, to be honest with you I was too busy to notice the time, but according to the web server logs we had the results finished, and up and posted on the web site before midnight, so I know we had to of been done well before then. There's certainly no doubt the entire team did a great job, I think that I did point that out and agree, just the scoring was only a part of it.
As far as talking about value from your dollar for racing a SX event compaired to a local event I see the point you tried to make but your also overlooking one huge difference. No one is going to leave a local night race here with a contract for next year because of it making millions of dollars like you could leave a SX event making. We just don't have our local Pro payouts up to that level yet. Any SX night race I've been too also has lasted till midnight, and they managed to do that with all the short qualifier laps, but didn't have to deal with getting all the assorted classes our local racing has in and not mixed together in strange ways, with the additional consideration of not mixing the same person in back to back motos.
The toughest part of the entire thing I've found to be is making the actual race schedule. I'll guess most of you here probably think it's easy, maybe even never thought much about it before. Oddly, during a race making the race schedule out to work for everyone is both one of the most difficult things to do, and the single thing you have the least amount of time to get done. With all the different classes we run in this area so everyone has the ability to race in more than just one class it becomes a nightmare building the race schedule. Without knowing who and how many are going to sign up for a given class in advance there's just no way what so ever to even prepair in advance for this ugly to deal with task.
Technology still lacks at this aspect, the computer won't just look at all your entries and automaticly build the best race schedule, or any race schedule for you with the already known parameters it has to look at, that nasty job has to be done by hand and while the computer will look and see if you've given people back to back moto's that's the best it'll do right now after you build the race schedule basicly by hand. Another thing I found out when it comes to building the races, people come out of the wood work with advice on move this race here, that race there advice, and while the advice they have works well for what they are thinking at the time, it's a disatser for the entire picture. Building a race schedule is 100% like working one of those little plastic puzzles you get in the Cracker Jack box where you have a bunch of little squares you need to line up and only a single empty square available to move them all around in. Move one square over and you end up messing the solution to the puzzle up even further. Now picture solving one of those puzzles with 20 people standing over your back telling you that if we moved this square here it would be better and the entire puzzle gets even more messed up each time they tell you to move a single square, all only to see the entire puzzle is completely scambled again after you already solved it once and then need to go completely back to square one and start all over again. Building the race schedule is the stress factor at its height for an event, not because you only end up with like 2 minutes to get it done in, but because everyone else seems to think they have a better idea that never works out and they insist you try it the way they think is best after you've already solved the puzzle. Thats where I love working with Jerry, he delegates a task and has his own tasks and just expects you to get done your own delegated task and do it right. He won't come up and recheck my race schedule even if I say, Jerry, come up and check it or live with it, everyone else and their brother comes up, Jerry has trust that it's my job, it'll get done, he has enough to worry about. I'm like Jerry, come look over this race schedule or live with it, he trusts me, glad one of us do. Building the race schedule is one of those tasks thats so bad I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. The only good thing about it is, 15 minutes after the final release no one has come up to rip your head off for it you can finally relax for the rest of the night and just deal with the task at hand.
During practice people are still turning in race entries, for that matter, even after the first races are already out and running we still get people walking up late to the window turning in race entries, or changing their classes they signed up for. This has made me an even bigger advocate now for online registrations, which MustangMX will soon be implementing, it won't solve the entire problem, but will certainly go a long ways in making life easier, a long ways. Its just another one of those things the racers certainly wanted, but the sign up crews I offered to do it for in the past told me forget it, "we have our system down to a perfection and don't want to change it". So thinking this was a slap on my own back post, it was more of a note to be taken by all those who told me they had their systems figured out and it was instead a perfect wake up call to point out, it can be better.
I've offered to help any of them in the past with this, and still hold that offer out there, I charge absolutely nothing, and instead only ask we sheet can that non working plan they thought they had perfected and revamp how things are being done thats causing them all their headaches and problems. I'm not biased to any promoter or track, I help the Masterpools as much as I do only because I believe in what they are doing, trying to do, and want to achieve, there's absolutely nothing what so ever in it for me personaly in helping them as much as I do. That in itself should speak leaps and bounds to everyone coming from me, I think you all know without question by now, if there was an angle to bring up about a promoter I'd be all over it, friendships get set aside when I break out the keyboard and put out my thoughts. I know the Masterpools inside and out from working so much with them and there just isn't any bad dirt to spread there. That's how it should be people, take note of that.
What happens you also asked when all this crashes?
Ha ha ha ha, I guess we'll see, your getting into my absolute area of expertise though, leave worrying about that to me, you just kick back comfortably, relax, and leave that problem to me. Trust me, ask Kelly Perez, I stress plenty, it's because I've taken ownership of making sure we don't have any problems, and I know, if we have a problem, it's up to me and me alone to fix it, there's no one I can ask for help or expect to come bail me out if I can't fix it before it even becomes a problem. Everyone else has the casual luxory of if something goes wrong somebody will fix it. I'm the single person behind our Mustang events that if something goes wrong I have no one else to be there capable of fixing it and able to bail us out but me. If an earthquake split the track in half during an event we have 10 people who could get on a loader and fill the hole or just call it another obstical. I look at it this way, it's all about that taking ownership for my part expected of me thing. If something goes wrong with as you put it a system crash, I don't have 10 other people who can just jump in and bail me out. That's exactly why I've had to plan for just such an event happening and that's exactly where the redundancy I have planned into everything comes in. My computer experience has been in working with mission critical systems my entire life, so I'm well aware of the need for redundancy and preporation for the worst possible situation happening. Relax in the pits and enjoy the race, a system crash causing catastrophic problems or delays is not going to be an issue, I have that all covered to the point as if the world depended on it.
I want fast, like a ferrari fast, you can have fast and quality, in MX its all about faster, faster is better. I don't know about the rest of you, but that waiting needlessly for race results to get posted and taking for ever to do so, it just drives me nuts at a race and I know I'm not alone because I've been there with all of you waiting for freaking ever for those results to finally get posted. Especially at night races. Not sure where you where for that one Steve, but I can remember a local night race last year where the race was done but we were all standing around 2 hours waiting for the results to get posted after the race so we could pick up our trophies. Maybe I just remember that one because it also happened to be my own first trophey and I was willing to wait those 2 hours just to get it.
I'm not trying to say anyone else has been doing a bad job, all I'm trying to point out is, toss all the excuses, a better job can be done, you just have to want it bad enough to get it done. I felt the job of getting the results done at Mustang got left in my hands and as my problem to handle, everyone else had their own stuff that was their job and up to them to handle, max and just be great at getting done. I can't speak for how everyone else felt they did their own tasks at hand, but I know I was pretty proud of myself for getting what I had to do done. It feels good knowing you did your absolute best for everyone and then accomplished the task at hand beyond not only your own expectations, but everyone elses.
F an A right, I'll give myself a pat on the back for that, I earned it, if anyone else here thinks they can just jump into doing this like I did and do a better job than the other experts who have been doing it for so many years and still don't seem to have it down then knock yourself out, my job is available and I'll gladly give it to you.
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