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Post by Mr Moto on Jul 1, 2006 0:30:04 GMT -5
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Post by tony on Jul 1, 2006 7:18:36 GMT -5
Good read, and good write up Joey!
This is huge, and I think it's the exact type of service racing under an association can and should control. The problems are coming from the associations attempting to regulate when and if races can be held, and I don't know if theres a working fix for that problem. It's a problem when you consider some of our tracks like Mustang, Honey lake and I'm probably forgetting someone else, have a daily cost, not just an event cost that they need to at least break even on in order to keep going for us. While these are some of our best tracks, they are also the most expensive to maintain for all of us. The attempts to conform to the same schedule as other tracks which don't have that same daily operating expense isn't being considered by our associations which want to host these tracks but neglect in seeing the difference.
Could Mustang for example manage their own bump points, the reality is, we could, but it would take a lot of extra work to do so and that person who would have to do it would likely end up being me. I'm a volunteer with a ton of work and endless hours on my plate helping already. There just isn't enough of me to continue spreading thinner. Kelly Perez is right in there with me as a volunteer as well and she's being spread just as thin in our eforts to make this possible with her own book keeping work. The two of us with just what we do at Honey Lake and Mustang as volunteers probably dedicate more time to all of this than we do our real paying jobs, I know I atleast do. Maintaining bump points is just an additional tax on what we're already doing and I'm in full agreemnent with what Joey has said, there is a need for such associations if for nothing more than maintaining bump points.
Fact of the matter is none of us local in NV are currently doing well right now with these less than 200 rider turnouts everyone is getting. A 200 race entry turn out doesn't even come close to covering the expense of holding a race even with volunteer staffing and donated equipment should anyone be blessed with either. Kelly and myself, with what we both do as volunteers fill the most expensive jobs the track would otherwise have to pay someone to do, and if it wasn't for that I don't see looking at the numbers any way they'd be able to continue operating for us at all.
You can look at the track as a business on the surface, but the reality is it's an effort through volunteers and donations to just make it not only a great track but the best track and most available groomed and controlled track for all of us. Your money spent on this track doesn't go to support other things, it all goes 100% back into further developing just the track for all of us. Your race fee's and gate fee's are going 100% back into this track and there isn't another track we have out there right now that can claim that same. Not a single track, even fernley, is putting 100% of the income directly back into the track like Mustang is doing.
We need right now more than anything turnouts to keep that level of 100% of all income going back into the track for all of us to be able to make this level of idealology to work. This isn't the type of venue where the promoter gets all the land donated, yet still puts only a very small portion of the race income back into the acutual track. This isn't the type of venue where the promoter only rents the land for the track for their events and has no controll of it beyond that one day they rent the track for for profit and the procedes go into the pocket of the promoter. Musxtang is the ONLY track right now that can claim, 100% of the income goes directly back into the track.
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Post by tony on Jul 1, 2006 8:42:41 GMT -5
I also meant to ad in regards to "The never ending battle of the Beginner"...
There's no glory in being a "Beginner", being such is down right embarassing to me. Winning in the beginner class should be even more embarassing, wow, congrads, you raced against and beat people who have never raced before, what a life long accomplishment for you that must be.
I'm glad I went ahead and bumped myself up to the next class, so far it's been a very positive move for me. I wasn't winning every race in the beginer class and I'm not winning every race now, actually I'm result wise doing the exact same, but I feel better racing in a higher class thats for sure! It's also mentaly forced me to feel the need to step things up for myself and try harder.
In regaurds to the bump point system it only seems to affect the most pathetic abuser of the availability of the Beginner classes. I learned that lesson long enough racing that class, just when you think your going to get rid of the sandbagers and actually get good enough to win a race, an entire new group of sandbagers endlessly turn up and foil your goals, racing well out of class, but allowed to do so because they haven't earned any bump points.
Sometimes I think the entire bump point system should have absolutely nothing to do at all with the number of races you've placed in, but instead, the number of races you've actually raced. I feel the strongest about that when you just consider the name of the "Beginner" class and try to take the meaning of that name at face value or how Websters describes it as.
If you've been racing for more than a year, your by no means any longer a beginner no matter where you've placed at in any race, your certainly no longer a beginner by any definition of the word. You might totaly sux and have no chance at a career as a future top pro MX racer, but your also no longer a "Beginner". For our sport to grow and invite new people into it our life long beginners that are by no means beginners need to step it up and pass to torch allowing the true beginners the oportunity to race and obtain some experience.
This isn't just evident in the vet class I've raced in, but get's even more pathetic when you look at the younger classes. If your doing and clearing all the jumps, your by no means what so ever a beginner. How many people do we have at any given race who are in the say 125 Beginner class and aren't clearing all the jumps?
All I'm saying is the "Beginner" class should be just that, reserved for actual Beginners. It should be the one class everyone gets bumped out of based on the number of races they've ran and not the number of races they've won, let them sux in the next class up and remain there while they do, but preserve the beginner clases for people who are actually beginning fo their first time ever.
Steppping it up to the next level despite trying to earn legitimate bump points within the endles cycle of sandbaggers who race for the lower hanging fruit has been the best move I can say I ever made. It's forced me to want to do better rather than just getting by and hoping some day I'll get some easy wins in a class I don't belong in because even if I might sux, it's still far from being my first race so I'm by any means,no longer a true "beginner by any definition of the word.
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Post by Larry63r on Jul 1, 2006 17:31:08 GMT -5
One nice thing about the 40+ classes. There is no beginner class.
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Post by mxracersmom on Jul 4, 2006 0:26:51 GMT -5
Bump points are going to be a huge issue, with such small turn outs it is impossible to use a point system, too many riders will be bumped before they are ready. Unfortunately, there are career novices (Junior) riders in this sport that float from track to track never earning enough points to be bumped.
The AMA is on the right track banning riders that have ever qualified for or raced at Loretta's from the Novice class. They and other santioning associations need to do more still to rectify the sandbagger situation.
There are couple of career novices we've run into at Hangtown, NMA events, Oakhill, and Mammoth that have been racing the Novice division for at least 3 years consistently. These are kids that are fast enough to qualify for Loretta's as Intermediates! I will never understand the mentality behind sandbagging.
I'm not bagging on California kids, we have a couple of sandbaggers in Northern Nevada as well.
While I'm on the subject of bumping I want to applaud Wayne Appleton, Wayne had the integrity to step up to the plate and bump himself to Intermediate last weekend at Mustang.. This is a young man that could have become an elite sandbagger. Instead he had the intelligence to realize the only way to get to the top is to do what was right for both himself and the sport and bump himself to intermediate. Awesome job Wayne!!!
There are a couple more Minden/Gardnerville kids that need to do the right thing for themselves and the sport!
Anyway, I just don't believe a bump point system is going to be the way to go with the low rider turn out.
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Post by tony on Jul 4, 2006 5:09:19 GMT -5
The entire bump thing is a tough issue with no easy fix. The only thing that's a definate is all of us hate being in a race where we're trying to be competitive and have someone come in on us that not just beats all of the class they signed up for, but everyone else in the class above them.
The mass majority thinks they got bumped to the next class too soon and the worse case scenarioes of the people who feel this way are the ones who never started at the bottom of the pack in last place and worked their way up to the front in the first place. I've been paying alot of attention to who's doing what, who's been saying they got bumped too soon and who's just racing, winning, getting bumped and we never see them again after that.
I think it was one of my favorite local Pro riders who runs the number 420 who was talking to me one day and just straight up said, it's a tough pill for a guy to swallow going from first place in a class all the time to no longer even tropheying. It just doesn't set well with them.
Too many people in the amature level feel they should be in a class they can win rather than a class where you might get a second palce on a good day or you might get last.
There's no easy fix for the problem outside of relying on the individual persons own integrity. Bump points are the best a promoter or association have to easily rely on as a solution to the problem, but even that isn't a perfect solution to the problem. A slow person could race three races the sandbaggers don't show up for and win, then get bumped to the next class and feel they were bumped there too soon.\
The fact of the matter is though, if your already in the top 1/2 of the class your currently racing in and happen to get bumped, then oh well, you were destined to get bumped here real soon anyhow and maybe now your coming in on a new class and getting worse results than you wanted, but at least your in a class you more so belong in. If your topping in every race, get a clue, your probably in the wrong class, step it up, and start racing in the next class.
I think some of the worse advice I was ever given was when I felt I had been racing long enough to no longer consider myself a beginner and wanted to bump myself up, but instead was told, win some races in your class and let the system bump you. The system is just like the "man" it's flawed. I think the promoters who hold their own events and even more so the associations owe a better responsibilty to ALL of their riders to do a much better job or apply a better effort towards ploicing the needs to bump people. A perfect example of this has taken place at Mustang where we have no established bump system, yet have 2 guys who have been racing regularly in the 30 Beginner class, leaving on the same gate as the 30 Juniors, and still they are beating every 30 Junior, yet they continue racing in the 30 Beginner class. I've heard it argued some people are better on some tracks, but I think that's still BS when certain people are beating others who are in the next higher class up and are known to do well on all the tracks.
Lap sheets get turned in after every race. The problem is not a single person out there is paying any attention to the fact that people winning in a slower class are beating everyone in a faster class and some people need to be forcibly bumbed when they lack the integrity needed to do it on their own.
Moving up to the next class was probably the best move I think I could have ever made. It's just made me feel like I need to push myself that much more and try harder. I also already know I could beat all the people who I felt belonged and were working hard in that class to try and advance but like me weren't able to get there because of the endless sandbaggers who keep turning up and then never being seen from again once they get bumped.
I think this is a huge concern amongst us the racers, it's the race association and the promoters problem to deal with it and while it's a huge deal to all of us the racers, the man just doesn't ever seem to care as long as he's getting that entry fee given to him.
How do we fix that?
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Post by mxrules on Jul 4, 2006 12:22:58 GMT -5
Thought!
What about the beginner class being $5.00 cheaper and there is no trophy and you can only race it 3 times. Then this would be a true beg. class.
Just a thought, not sure if it would fix things or not.
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